Your early career in the entertainment industry included working as a go-go dancer in a mafia-operated nightclub in New York City. What are your memories of that period?
Oh, I have many. I had just moved to New York, and I needed to work at night because I needed my days free to pursue my career — you know, to go to auditions, take voice lessons, acting classes, and everything. So I got a job initially as a cocktail waitress in a club whose owner, I later found out, was the head of one of the five mafia families. There was a little stage in the restaurant, sort of facing the bar, and he had motorized mannequins on the stage dressed up like musicians. He would play music on the jukebox, and these dummies would move like they were a band. People came in and thought they were hearing a live band, and when they turned around and saw that it wasn't, they were sort of annoyed.
So that led you to get up on stage?
Yeah. He got the idea to have the girls, the cocktail waitresses, get up on stage and dance to the music. And I learned later—I don't know if it's true—that it was one of the very first go-go dancing places in the country. So, I did that for a while until I got my first acting job, which was five months doing summer stock in the middle of the country, in Michigan. Then I got my union card; I was a member of Equity. Eventually, I ended up on Broadway. I was one of the daughters in Fiddler on the Roof.
In Fiddler on the Roof, you worked with a young Bette Midler before her Continental Baths days, right?
Yes, Bette played Tzeitel, Tevye's older daughter, and I played Hodel, the middle daughter. She started doing the Continental Baths while we were doing this musical. You know, she started trying out her material and putting her act together.
Did you imagine back then that she would become a major star?
You know what? I did. When I went into the show, she was already playing the role of Tzeitel. So I sat in the theater while I was learning my role, and I watched Bette perform for two weeks. And every night, she brought me to tears — she was brilliant. We became very good friends. And there was never any question in my mind, once she started her musical career, that she would be an enormous superstar. She is just incredibly talented.
Talking about Broadway, you originated the role of Rizzo in Grease, which earned you a Tony Award nomination. How did that experience impact your career?
Well, it sort of changed everything for me because, at the time when I was nominated for the Tony, Norman Lear, who later became a very famous television producer, had a show on the air called All in the Family. But they were casting for a role in the next show he was going to do called Maude. And because of the Tony nomination, they had heard about me. So they sought me out, asked me to audition, and they hired me. I went right from Grease to Los Angeles to star in a very, very successful and important half-hour situation comedy.
Did you feel the role in Grease catapulted you into stardom?
I don't know if I'd say stardom, but it took me to Los Angeles — it took me to television. I did the series for six years, but during those six years, I did other TV movies, miniseries, and guest spots on other television shows, so it established me as a viable actress. And then I went on to do the films. Guido, I've always thought of myself as a working actress; I never thought of myself as a movie star or anything like that. But as I've gotten older, and I continue to work all the time, I understand that people on the outside look and they see the body of work — and they say that: the movie star thing.
Before talking about Maude, I wanted to ask you if you think Stockard Channing was the right choice to play Rizzo in the film adaptation of Grease...
You know, Guido, I've never seen the film. I was in a department store one day, and they had Muzak — as it was called in those days — playing over the loudspeakers, and I heard a song, and I thought, "What is that?" And then I realized, "Oh, that's the way they did the song from Grease in the movie." It was so different from the way we had done it on stage, I thought, "You know what? I don't think I ever want to see this." I have such incredibly loving feelings about our stage production that I never saw the movie. I know both Stockard and I — none of us were the right age for that role in the film or even back when we did it on Broadway. She's a brilliant actress, though, but I don't know about her portrayal because I haven't seen it.
During much of the 1970s, you starred in Maude as Bea Arthur's daughter. How did you get along with her on set?
I loved her, on stage and off. I took her for granted, because it was my first television show. I didn't realize until after I started doing other work — with other companies, with other casts — how incredibly professional she was, how talented she was — obviously — but especially how giving she was.
What would you say made her very giving in your eyes?
When I say she was giving, what I mean is that she was the first one who would say to the writers, "I think this joke might be funnier if Conrad said it or if Adrienne said it." She was all about the product, all about the show, and making it the best it possibly could be. It was not about Bea as a star. I just loved her. You know, all of us in the cast of Maude came from the theater, so we all had a really professional approach to doing the work. We were a very close-knit group. Conrad Bain was like my father, and we all stayed very, very close. But, except for the boy who played my son, I'm the only one left. I miss them all.
Is it true that in the final season you had to miss more than half of the episodes?
No, I didn't miss them. What happened was, I had a five-year contract, and at the end of the fifth year, I had started doing a lot of other television work. So, I made a contract for that last year wherein, if I had another offer to do something, I had to give them two weeks' notice, and then they would know not to write me into that show. I was able to still work, do the job, but go off and do other things.
In 1978, a poster of you in purple lingerie became quite popular. Since you later used this image for your autobiography cover, do you think being labeled as a sex symbol was a negative experience, or did you come to terms with it over time?
Well, honestly, if you look at all the things I've done, I mean, maybe I played a sex symbol in one movie, which was The Cannonball Run, but I really wasn't typecast as a sex symbol. The poster came about at a time when I was married to John Carpenter—or we were engaged, I can't remember exactly. But Farrah Fawcett had come out with one, and Cheryl Tiegs too. And John said, "You ought to do a poster." The photographer was David Alexander. He had shot a lot of album covers, for example, a Linda Ronstadt one where she's sort of in the same hairstyle. I think he took a beautiful shot of myself. And so, when time came to release the memoir, I stole the title from the song I sang in Grease, "There Are Worse Things I Could Do," and the cover photo from my poster.
So you wouldn't say that you or the roles you played were associated with the idea of being a sex symbol?
If you look at it, the woman from Escape from New York—I mean, you wouldn't call her a sex symbol. Maybe she's sexy because I'm playing the part and I've got that costume on and everything, but it wasn't about being sexy or being categorized under that label. Certainly Creepshow was not a sex symbol role, nor was Back to School, you know, and all of the other stuff that I've done since then. I mean, to me, Raquel Welch was a sex symbol, you know. Maybe people think of Sophia Loren as a sex symbol. To me, she was just an incredible actress who was sexy—she was sensual and sexual. So, I mean, I guess it depends on your definition of the term.
The same year you made the poster, you met director John Carpenter while working on Someone's Watching Me!, and you married him a year later. Can you share how your romantic and professional relationship began?
It began with John calling me into his office to interview me because he wanted me to play the role of Sophie in a screenplay that he had written called Someone's Watching Me! He had a sense that I could play the kind of character that he liked to write, which is what he called the Howard Hawks woman—like Katharine Hepburn, Lauren Bacall... You know, Howard Hawks wrote roles for women who were strong and witty and maybe sensual, attractive, or whatever. And I think John saw that, maybe, in the role that I was doing on Maude. So he called me in, and I could barely see him through the cigarette smoke. But when I did see him, I thought, "Oh, this is a very attractive man."
Well, that's the first step, isn't it? What happened next?
We started talking about the character that he wanted me to play. I played, I think, one of the first gay women in a television movie, and there was a scene in which she lets it be known that she is a lesbian. So we were talking about it, and John said, "Well, you know, if I were saying this to my friends—if I were going to tell my friends about me..." And I thought, "Oh, shoot. He's not straight. Well, that's the end of that." (laughs) I thought he was telling me he was gay. Then we started working together, and I found out I was wrong—he was not. Our affection for each other, and our romance, just grew out of getting to know each other on the set. I knew him first as a director, and then fell in love with him.
You starred in two iconic feature films directed by your then-husband, the first of which was The Fog in 1980. Considering you had only worked in theater and television up to that point, how was your first foray onto the big screen?
It was wonderful because John sort of wrote the character with me in mind. We were filming in one of the most beautiful parts of the country you could imagine. We ended up buying a house there. And I was filming with all my closest friends—Tom Atkins, all of John's crew... And I had John to direct me, so I trusted him completely. We had one disagreement about Stevie Wayne: we were getting ready to do the scene that comes after the piece of driftwood catches fire, and John said, "Have a seat and we'll get started." And I said, "Have a seat? Oh, John. I don't think she'd sit down. She's too upset." And he replied, "Okay. Stand up, and we'll get started." And that was about the only disagreement we ever had about that movie. (laughs)
What was working as a couple like?
We had just gotten married, and it was the first time we were working together as husband and wife. We were both so concerned that anyone would think that he was, you know, favoring me that we barely spoke to each other. We were being very professional. We took separate rooms at the hotel, and at the end of the day, John came up and he said, "I'm not having any fun doing this." And I said, "Let's forget that, and let's just be ourselves."
Did you watch the 2005 remake?
No, and I'm not sure if I watched Escape from L.A. or not. I don't know if I did—I don't remember it.
When Escape from New York was released in 1981, did you expect it to become a cult classic?
No, no. And the same with The Fog. I mean, you know, maybe nowadays people do this, but in those days, it was before social media, it was before the conventions—this whole community. And nobody ever thought, "Oh my gosh, maybe this film will be iconic 40 years from now." You just didn't think in those terms. I don't even remember the response when Escape from New York was released.
Do people still mention your portrayal of Maggie when they talk to you?
Oh my gosh, yes, because I occasionally do the autograph conventions... and they're young people, you know. Snake Plissken is part of the lexicon right now—everybody knows Snake Plissken. And everybody loves that film. They love The Fog. Some people love Swamp Thing, and some people love Creepshow. But they have all had an enormous resurgence.
Given that you also starred in Creepshow and Swamp Thing around the same time, continuing your work in horror and science fiction, how do you feel about becoming one of the era's most beloved scream queens?
I'll take it. It's fine with me. I mean, a lot of the work I've done has not been in the horror field, but a lot of it has. And I mean, yeah, why not? I don't like seeing them, but I do love doing them. You know, when I first started my career, I was a musical comedy actress. Then I came to L.A., and everybody said, "Oh, she does musical comedy. So, well, she could do TV comedy. She couldn't do drama on TV." That took about nine or ten months before I got my first dramatic role. Then they said, "She is a TV actress." And in those days, if you were doing television, you couldn't get seen to audition for film because everyone thought, "Nobody's going to pay to see somebody in the theater when they can see them for free on Tuesday nights on their television."
Let me guess: your collaboration with John Carpenter helped you break into the movie industry...
Exactly. It was John who really gave me my first feature film. Then, because I was associated with John—both socially and with The Fog—the offers started coming in. And most of them were for genre films: horror films, sci-fi, or whatever you call Swamp Thing. But because those films are still so powerful in people's minds, and that's what I'm associated with, then I'm a scream queen—and that's okay. I think I can do it well. I'm a good screamer. (laughs)
Which genre do you prefer working in, out of everything you've done?
I can say that I always make my choices based on the project. If it's a great role and it's on stage, then I'm going to take that over not a great role on film or television. I'm not a big half-hour sitcom person, you know. I really loved doing Carnivàle. We only had two seasons. It's still available on HBO.
And what genre do you prefer watching?
I tend to watch European—Scandinavian, Italian—productions. I don't know if I've seen anything from Argentina. But I watch a streaming channel that only carries international projects. I watched one from Armenia. I think I like series more than films. I like watching eight or nine episodes over a couple of nights. I'm not as into American television, I guess. I mean, there are some good things that come along. I'm loving Slow Horses on Apple TV+. There was a miniseries a couple of years ago called The Offer, about the making of The Godfather. It followed a producer, Albert Ruddy, from quitting his day job and optioning the book to getting it sold, and then making it and casting it. It's really brilliant—especially if you're a fan of that classic.
When you say that you don't like American TV as much, do you mean nowadays?
Yes, I mean nowadays. But, you know, I never watched television until I was in my 30s because I was working on stage at night. So if I watched TV at all, it was the morning talk shows—maybe The Dick Cavett Show or something—back in the '70s. But I guess there's something more real about international television. I like espionage; I like spy dramas. I think since the pandemic, I've gotten away from things that are really dark. It's like, "Oh, I don't want to deal with that."
While many people recall your work from the '70s and '80s, you've continued to work consistently over the years. More recently, you starred in the multi-Emmy-winning show Carnivàle in 2003. How do you recall that shoot?
It was wonderful. I loved the writing. It was sort of good versus evil, but set in the 1930s, in the Depression or in the Dust Bowl—very metaphysical. It's a traveling carnival that takes in a boy who has the power to heal with his hands. And he's going up against a preacher. They were fascinating characters. I played a snake dancer, a woman in the carnival who ends up having a love affair with the young boy, then ends up getting bitten by one of her snakes and dying, and coming back and then having second sight. I mean, it was all over the map. And also, from a practical point of view, as a mother, it worked for me.
How so?
Because it was filming here in Los Angeles, and there were so many of us in the cast that I never worked five days a week. So, I could oftentimes take my boys to school, get to the set, work all day, come home, and still maybe have time for them in the evening. And if not, then there were days that I had off.
I understand that it was initially planned for six seasons but was cancelled after just two. What was the reason behind that decision?
It was a combination of things. Some of it was politics related to the network. But it was a very expensive show to produce because it took place in the '30s, so they had a lot of post-production that had to be done. It was the early days of HBO. HBO had had a huge success with The Sopranos, and they'd had success with Six Feet Under. And we didn't get the crossover audience that they wanted right out of the box. Had we stayed another year, I think we really would have found our way. But they just didn't want to take a chance.
Was this unexpected for you and the rest of the cast?
We finished filming in November, and we knew that we would not know if we were picked up or not until March. So the producers had to write the last episode of the show in a way that maybe could tie up the story of the past two years or leave it open enough that we could go forward. And we just all sat around and waited until it was March, and then they called us. I mean, at least they called us — we didn't read about it. They just said, "We're not moving forward." They didn't pick it up.
In the past 15 years, you've been involved in a wide range of projects, including an episode of Grey's Anatomy, playing Madeleine Stowe's mother on Revenge, and collaborating with Ryan Murphy on American Horror Stories. Is there a particular project from the past few years that stands out?
Oh, let's see. I did an incredible character on Sons of Anarchy — just a one-episode deal — but oh my God, was she wild. I did Criminal Minds. I had a recurring character on Harlan Coben's Shelter, which is a YA series that was on Amazon Prime. We didn't get a second season because of the SAG-AFTRA strike. I was very fortunate because during the pandemic, I was able to go to New Zealand and film Cowboy Bebop for Netflix. I did another part in a Netflix series called AJ and the Queen with RuPaul, and I loved that one. Most of them have been, you know, guest stars on TV shows.
What about films?
I have a couple of films that are in post-production. I've also done several short films. I starred in a TV movie for a streaming channel called Tubi that premiered last year — it's called Hustlers Take All. But also, during that time, I was on the road for a year with the national company of Pippin, playing Pippin's grandmother, where I got to sing my song hanging upside down from a trapeze 15 feet in the air, with no net. So that took me away for almost a year. And then, also during that time, I wrote.
Which books did you write aside from the memoir?
Aside from the memoir, I wrote three books in a vampire series. Then I co-authored a book for the 50th anniversary of Grease, which is a compilation of stories from all the actors who appeared on Broadway, in the National Company, and everywhere — talking about their auditions, rehearsals, getting hired, getting fired, being on the road, falling in love. It's quite a fun book. And I've been told, after we published it, by many people that this is a great book for actors to read because you really get an understanding of what it was like. It's called Grease: Tell Me More, Tell Me More. Do you want a little anecdote to hook the readers?
Of course.
Most people don't know that Grease opened, and we got bad reviews, and we didn't think we were going to be open for more than a week. It was like, okay, they're going to post the closing notice, and we've all got to go get jobs. The book tells what the producers did to keep it alive and to get it going. It's quite interesting.
Can you tell me about the voice work you've been doing?
Yes. I've done Batman: The Animated Series and other cartoons, as well as quite a few video games—good video games, like Fallout 76, which John Carpenter is a huge fan of. But I also do video captioning for the blind.
How is that process?
I go into a studio; the television program or the film is on the screen, and I'm reading off a script with time codes. I describe what's going on on-screen—internally, in between the dialogue—so that if you're visually impaired, you put your TV on the SAP channel, and you'll hear the actors acting, and then you'll hear my voice or another narrator's voice saying, "He takes off the headphones and throws them down," or something like, "He looks at her with a furrowed brow." I enjoy doing it. But also, I get to see so much stuff that I would never watch on my own—you know, PBS shows and things like that. It's wonderful, because it never crossed my mind, but I've actually gotten fan mail from people all across the world saying, "Your voice helps me bring the TV show alive."
You just talked about RuPaul and AJ and the Queen, and you also said that you played a lesbian in Someone's Watching Me in the '70s. How would you describe your allyship to the LGBT community?
I married my two best friends—husband and husband. I married my niece and her wife. Well, you know, my first real love was bisexual. I was only 17 at the time; I hardly knew what it was, but he had an enormous impact on my life. I do whatever I can. In fact, we have an organization here called Outfest, which has a festival, and I've just been meeting with them to try and do promotion and stuff like that.
Are there any upcoming projects you'd like to share or promote aside from the ones you've already talked about?
I just optioned a novel and am in the process of writing a screenplay with a writing partner. Actually, she produced this last Tubi movie that I did, and that's how we met. Once we've got that written, we're going to try and get it made. There's a short horror film that I did and took on the festival circuit called Oddities. Before the strike, there was a part—a recurring character for me—on a series for J. J. Abrams. I don't know what's going to happen with it, whether they're going to go forward or not. Once the strike came, they had to shut down. But look up my Instagram page; it usually says what's coming up or what I have going on.